Wednesday, March 1, 2017

UPDATED Again::When a wingnut cries foul (pt 5)

This is what happens when one does not cite source for a claim and tells someone to "look it up" or "do your research".   We jump to the wrong conclusion(s) and miss the narrative you wish us to seek.

After posting concerning Freßgass, I continued to do some digging and came across this,
The Cologne assaults were not reported by the national media for days, and The Local says many news outlets started reporting it only after a wave of anger on social media made covering the story unavoidable.[49] This fuelled claims that the media was attempting to cover up crimes by immigrants.[50] Although Cologne Mayor Henriette Reker condemned the assaults, she was strongly criticized for some of her comments and was accused of blaming the victims. Cologne's police chief, Wolfgang Albers, was transferred to provisional retirement for his handling of the situation. The police response and delayed media reaction met strong criticism from German citizens, with some placing blame on the European migrant crisis.[30] The governments of Slovakia and the Czech Republic called for an emergency EU meeting following the assaults and various other EU governments made statements concerning the attacks.
So we have one false report and one legitimate.  My apologies for incorrectly assuming TW was being misleading.

3/2/2017 EDITED TO ADD:: It has since come to my attention that the NYE attack that TW may alluded to concerning Germany is a false accusation.  According to The Independent, "Masses of refugees were not responsible for any sexual assaults in the Freßgass over New Year. The accusations are completely baseless."

According to PressPortal, a German media outlet (Google translate as my German sucks),
The inspections of all emergency calls and mission logs of the night showed no evidence of the criminal offenses and the alleged mob in the Silvesternacht in the Freßgass. To date, no other offenses from the Freßgass area have been reported to the police. 
The interrogations of the witnesses, guests, and collaborators of the witnesses gave considerable doubts about the portrayed portrayals, so a person who was allegedly affected by the actions at the time of the crime was not in the city at all.
The allegations are so unstable that the prosecutor's office in Frankfurt has now initiated an investigation because of the resulting suspects because of the preamble of a criminal offense.
Now being that I don't pay too much attention to international news, not catching this error sooner doesn't surprise me.  BUT TW on the other hand seems to following this shit quite closely.  So, am I to take this as a sign that TW choose to ignore said updated news? Or, is she only a fallible human that can make an honest mistake. 

Before I go any further, I want to be real clear.  Do I think Islam as a whole is a threat?  Maybe - But, I am more concerned about home grown, radicalized extremists than I am about foreign born
The paths to violence for the United States-born attackers varied. Some were recent converts to Islam. At least three who were born in the U.S. had previous criminal histories, and one had a history of mental illness.
One seemed to have radicalized after spending time in Yemen. Another became radicalized after being convicted of lying to F.B.I. agents — denying he had made plans to travel to Somalia when in fact he had.

Security experts argue that the risks of routine travel — including the U.S. visa waiver program, which allows citizens of Britain, France, Belgium and 35 other countries to enter the United States without a visa for stays of up to 90 days — are greater than the threat of foreign terrorists coming through the refugee program.
“Further restricting the acceptance of refugees does not address the most likely vulnerability to attacks from abroad, which is the large number of people from visa-waiver countries involved in the conflict in Syria,” said David Sterman, a researcher for the International Security Program at the New America think tank who has been cataloging terrorist attacks carried out since Sept. 11.
So, presenting me with random, out of context material is not the way to convince me.  Ignoring societal or cultural differences in how the influx of Muslims is handled (ie "Swedish rape crisis") is not going to convince me.  We are not Germany, Sweden, or the Netherlands.
While respect the concern regarding increases in violence in Malmö, Pool said that he considered warnings that he would be robbed or attacked in Rosengård as "ridiculous". 
"Someone shouted at us and pointed a finger. A takeaway pizza restaurant owner did not want to let in "some fucking journalists". But if people are really afraid to come here, then I would recommend that you never come to Chicago. Chicago has about 750 murders each year," he said. 
But Pool added that he had so far received conflicting information from residents about violence in the city, and that interview subjects have often cancelled or preferred to remain anonymous.
Following Saturday's tour of Malmö with local Karlsson, Pool and his photographer colleague Emily Molli are scheduled to remain in the city for several days to carry out research.
The pair will also visit Stockholm and Gothenburg, as well as other European cities affected by terror and highlighted as problematic by Donald Trump, such as Brussels, Paris and Nice.
[FYI::  Poole's work was sponsored in part by "Infowars editor Paul Joseph Watson, who has called the city “multicultural Malmö” and “the most dangerous city in Western Europe,” urged journalists to see for themselves and on his dime,,, Watson received overwhelming response from journalists and others, but ended up donating $2,000 for journalist Tim Pool’s trip to Malmö."]

Providing misleading, hyperbolic information not related to the conversation is not going to convince me.  Especially when said information is easily refuted.  The claims you listed have absolutely nothing to do with Muslim refugees and it seems a point you cannot stay focused on.  I am well aware of the atrocities committed in the name of Allah just as I am well aware of the atrocities committed in the name of the Christian God; I am not ignoring them, or pooh-poohing them away.  It's just that those claims have NO bearing on the FACTS of the original meme. {This is a point Deb and I stressed throughout the conversation.]

While I will readily admit I have a laissez faire attitude concerning the issues surrounding the refugee crisis in Europe, the pieces of evidence presented do not support the contention made by you and another comment.  Give me solid, verifiable evidence, not some shit that has already been refuted.
It was during our conversation of the Smith-Mundt Act that TW threw a real zinger into the mix.  An un-cited listing of alleged killings by Muslim "refugees"; you know, the whole point of the meme.  That is not what this list claims to be, it is not evidence of refugees involved in killing Americans. This is a listing of "the history of deadly Islamic terror on American soil since 1972" or as Gellar puts it "migrants to America have killed and have plotted to kill".  Nothing to do with refugees at all.

[The list, looked familiar and I mistakenly attributed it to Pamela Gellar; one of the biggest hyperbolic, anti-Muslim proponents out there.  I have since come to learn is the originator of this list not Gellar, but my criticism of the list still stands.]

This is some screen-grabs of the conversation surrounding said list.  Please keep in mind I have tried to focus attention only to the list so have edited out what I consider important but inconsequential conversation to the task at hand.

So TW throws a list at us, and as Deb notes, it is rather bizarre considering,
,,,you originally said that these attacks were being covered up or hidden from everyone. If that's the case, then why would you ever expect us to find news stories etc. about them? And if we did, then why would you claim these attacks were being concealed when obviously they weren't?
Remember points 6 and 8 of her "plot" outline, "All of humanity been purposly [sic] kept in the dark about all of this,,,  People globally have been fed lies through the media and popular sentiment and have no idea of the facts and are being manipulated."  TW posits other such sentiments through the conversation.  Telling me "it's called research" is a bit redundant if this information is not being reported.  (Does FarmTown count as a video game?)

While the incidents listed may have occurred, TROP's description of said events are misleading and fail to cite any sources for the claims.  While some may not see an issue with that point, I have a big problem with it; twofold in this case.  I should not have to contact TROP for further information to validate their claims.  And, TW should have been prepared to present source material. NOT tell me to "do my homework".  Want to sound like a con-nut, use that fecking line. Deb says it well, "A list of alleged incidents are not citations, those are the claims. And it is the person making such claims that must prove them. Got police reports? Arrest records? News videos? Court appearances?"

While TROP looks at all killings involving Muslims, Policy.Mic notes,
Americans are, in general, far more likely to be killed by the country's rampant gun violence than foreigners, yet Trump has curiously not proposed dramatic limitations on the freedoms of citizens to bear arms. Between 2001 and 2013, CNN reported, firearms in the U.S. killed over 406,000 people. All terrorism in the U.S. came to just 3,030 people — far too many, to be sure, but minuscule compared to guns.
Since most U.S. terror attacks are committed by homegrown extremists, not foreigners, and perceived persecution is a commonly cited motivation among terror suspects, Trump's order could do little to prevent attacks but perpetuate the narrative of civilization-scale conflict that groups like the Islamic State, also know as ISIS, rely upon to radicalize new converts.

Again TW does not seem to understand that Deb and I, via the meme, are only talking about refugees (the transgender issue will be discussed later).  TW is painting with broad strokes, the whole of Islam; all individuals of Muslim belief are bad people.  That POV is just plain wrong and doesn't hold up under scrutiny
The tone and tenor of the president’s executive order blurs the line between who’s a serious criminal and who isn’t,” and between documented and undocumented immigrants, said Randy Capps, the institute’s director of research for United States programs. There is no national accounting of criminality specifically by people who are in the country illegally. But Mr. Nowrasteh said he had analyzed the available figures and concluded that undocumented immigrants had crime rates somewhat higher than those here legally, but much lower than those of citizens.
While the NYT article broaches undocumented or illegal immigrants, the American Immigration Council tags them both,
For more than a century, innumerable studies have confirmed two simple yet powerful truths about the relationship between immigration and crime: immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term. For this reason, harsh immigration policies are not effective in fighting crime. Unfortunately, immigration policy is frequently shaped more by fear and stereotype than by empirical evidence. As a result, immigrants have the stigma of “criminality” ascribed to them by an ever-evolving assortment of laws and immigration-enforcement mechanisms. Put differently, immigrants are being defined more and more as threats. Whole new classes of “felonies” have been created which apply only to immigrants, deportation has become a punishment for even minor offenses, and policies aimed at trying to end unauthorized immigration have been made more punitive rather than more rational and practical. In short, immigrants themselves are being criminalized.

While I agree that we have to be watchful, and consider such examples of Islamic atrocities as TW presents. I at some point have to avoid paranoia and trust those is charge know what they're doing in regards to vetting etc.  To say it is a perfect system would be lying and tweaks to the process are good things. To descend into some fantasy world of leftist, elitist plots run by one man with money is crazy talk.  It is reminiscent of the "suffering" that would be imposed by President Obama - Sharia law, taking away your guns, creating death panels, destroying the economy, or imposing socialism.  None of which ever happened.

To believe that our gov't would intentionally put its citizens in harms way for world domination by some nefarious organization (NWO) is just ludicrous.  TW is acting as if the US is comparable to Europe when it is not.  We don't have refugees just walking across our borders.  Our immigration policy is not as open as some European countries.  And, while we have some democratic socialist tendency, we do not embrace that concept like some in Europe.  But too many can create and economic "sink hole" as a subsequent conversation brought to the fore.  But again, I have to trust my gov't that they know what they are doing.

Deb posted a meme with two statements of fact: Americans killed by Muslim refugees - none.  And, Americans attacked by trans people in restrooms - none. TW objected, presented what she felt as evidence that the meme was wrong.  Deb and I both objected to TW's evidence as it had nothing to do with refugees in the US, but xenophobia abounds.

No comments:

Post a Comment