Showing posts with label Thomas Jefferson. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Thomas Jefferson. Show all posts

Friday, August 14, 2015

David Barton: The Declaration Of Independence And Bill Of Rights Came Directly Out Of The Bible | Right Wing Watch

Glenn Beck brought right-wing pseudo-historian David Barton onto his television program last week so that he could deliver another one of his "history" lessons to Beck's audience about how the Founding Fathers took all of the rights guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights straight out of the Bible, specifically Genesis 1-8.

As Barton explained, the purpose of the Declaration was to declare that there was a God, that God created inalienable rights, and that government exists to protect these rights. As such, there were some two dozen rights listed in the Declaration, which eventually were codified into the Bill of Rights, and all of which were taken directly from the Bible.

"They held that all of those came out of Genesis 1-8," Barton said. "That's what they looked to. Genesis 1-8, they went through and said, 'Here's the two dozen rights we see and that's why governments exist.' So this is the God factor and that's what made of different from the beginning."
Barton went on to declare that there is no such thing as separation of church and state or government neutrality toward religion because the Declaration declares unanimously, on behalf of every level of government, that God exists.
WTF did I just read?

As one comment notes (from the Throckmorton response to follow), and it is a point I have made in the past, ",,,Barton, Beck and many others seem to conflate the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. The former is in no way a legal document and it differs substantially from the latter. Both were written with entirely different goals and in entirely different circumstances."

Warren Throckmorton in response to Barton makes this interesting point:
As usual Barton isn’t specific about which founders said what. I have pointed out several times on this blog that Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration, did not point to the Bible as a source for the document.  Below is a segment from a previous post which cites Jefferson’s description of the influences on him as he wrote the Declaration:
When Jefferson wrote about the Declaration, he did not credit the Bible or Christianity.
First, to Henry Lee on May 8, 1825, Jefferson wrote:
But with respect to our rights, and the acts of the British government contravening those rights, there was but one opinion on this side of the water. All American whigs thought alike on these subjects. When forced, therefore, to resort to arms for redress an appeal to the tribunal of the world was deemed proper for our justification. This was the object of the Declaration of Independence. Not to find out new principles or new arguments never before thought of, not merely to say things which had never been said before: but to place before mankind the common sense of the subject, in terms so plain and firm as to command their assent, and to justify ourselves in the independent stand we are compelled to take. Neither aiming at originality of principle or sentiment, nor yet copied from any particular and previous writing, it was intended to be an expression of the American mind, and to give to that expression the proper tone and spirit called for by the occasion. All its authority rests then on the harmonizing sentiments of the day, whether expressed in conversation, in letters, printed essays, or in the elementary books of public right as Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Sidney, &c. The historical documents which you mention as in your possession ought all to be found, and I am persuaded you will find to be corroborative of the facts and principles advanced in that Declaration.
Who wrote the “elementary books of public right?” Moses? The Apostle Paul? No, Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, Sidney contributed to the “harmonizing sentiments of the day.” A case could be made that some of that harmonizing sentiment derived from religious sources with religious references, but Jefferson did not mention them or appeal to them as primary influences.

In 1823, Jefferson told James Madison (referring to Lee’s theories about the source of the Declaration):
Richard Henry Lee charged it as copied from Locke’s treatise on government. Otis’s pamphlet I never saw, and whether I had gathered my ideas from reading or reflection, I do not know. I know only that I turned to neither book nor pamphlet while writing it. I did not consider it as any part of my charge to invent new ideas altogether, and to offer no sentiment which had ever been expressed before.
According to Jefferson (and in contrast to what the authors of the Founders’ Bible want you to believe), he did not turn to the Bible when writing the Declaration of Independence. Christian historians Mark Noll, Nathan Hatch, and George Marsden got it right when they wrote in 1989:
Here then is the “historical error”: It is historically inaccurate and anachronistic to confuse, and virtually to equate, the thinking of the Declaration of Independence with a biblical world view, or with Reformation thinking, or with the idea of a Christian nation. (p. 130).
I will add that I can’t see how the Bill of Rights can be found in Genesis 1-8.
David Barton: The Declaration Of Independence And Bill Of Rights Came Directly Out Of The Bible | Right Wing Watch

Wednesday, January 7, 2015

Seize the Day! (Well, what if we did?) | Political Research Associates



I recently wrote that the Christian Right does not want us to think about Religious Freedom Day, which commemorates the enactment of Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in 1786. The bill is widely regarded as the taproot of how the founding generation sought to reconcile the relationship between religion and government.

The enactment of the bill has been celebrated annually, mostly via presidential proclamation, since 1993.

And when I say that the Christian Right does not want “us” to think about it, I mean everyone who is not the Christian Right and their allies, and especially not LGBTQ people and the otherwise “insufficiently Christian.” I think that is why the Christian Right is mostly so eerily quiet about it, even though religious freedom is so central to their political program.

But what if we did?

What if we seized this day to think dynamically about the religious freedoms we take for granted at our peril; freedom that is in danger of being redefined beyond recognition. What if we decided to seize this day to consider our best values as a nation and advance the cause of equal rights for all?

[,,,]
The Constitution, framed according to “The Virginia Plan,” drafted primarily by Madison, contains no mention of God or Christianity. In fact, the final text’s only mention of religion is in the proscription of “religious tests for public office,” found in Article 6.

In other words — Jefferson’s words— one’s religious identity, or lack thereof, has no bearing on one’s “civil capacities.”

Seize the Day! (Well, what if we did?) | Political Research Associates

Wednesday, March 19, 2014

Our courts and our Constitution have spoken on this issue


As reported by the Montgomery Advertiser, Alabama House approves Ten Commandments bill:
The Ten Commandments could be displayed in Alabama public schools and state government buildings if mixed with historical and education documents, under a proposed constitutional amendment approved Thursday by the Alabama House of Representatives.

Lawmakers voted 77-19 in favor of the measure, which now moves to the Alabama Senate. Voters must also approve the amendment for it to become law.

"This country was founded on godly principles. ... That's our roots," said bill sponsor Rep. DuWayne Bridges, R-Valley. "We have a right to go back to what our roots are."

Bridges said people would be free to worship how they choose and that the displays would not promote a particular religious view. Opponents predicted the displays would prompt lawsuits and be looked on by the courts as illegal attempts to establish a preferred religion in Alabama.
The first question that comes to mind, which version of the Decalogue are you referring?  I may sound pedantic, but consider this. There are three versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible: Exodus 20:2-17 (generally found within Judaism and Protestant sects), Exodus 34:12-26 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21 (generally associated with Catholicism and the Lutheran Church). We also have the Muslim version found scattered throughout the Qur'an. So which denomination should lead the crusade?

A second point, as highlighted by a Christian Post interview with Dan Barker of FFRF concerning this recent event:
Barker argued that each of the first four Commandments violates the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. "Thou shalt have no god before me," the atheist quoted. "Our government can't tell anyone whom to worship." In his view, having the government publicly support the Ten Commandments amounts to declaring Christianity as the state religion.

"Thou shalt not make any graven image," Baker said, quoting the Second Commandment. He argued that this Commandment amounts to "telling us what kind of artwork we can make," and that it is "anti-freedom." The Third Commandment, "thou shalt not take God's name in vain," violates free speech, according to the FFRF co-president. And the Fourth, honoring the Sabbath Day, is also egregious: "Our government has no basis to tell us what day to worship," Baker declared.

Baker admitted that the remaining six Commandments "have some value," but he argued that only three — the prohibitions against stealing, murder, and perjury — have any basis in American law. "The Ten Commandments are meaningful to some people, but they are not the basis of American freedoms," the atheist declared.
Third, the SCOTUS has spoken quite firmly on the issue in the past, something the Reich seems to ignore.  In a 5-to-4 decision (Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 - 1980), the SCOTUS ruled that a Kentucky law violated the first part of the test established in Lemon v. Kurtzman (aka the Lemon Test) and thus violated the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. The Court found that the requirement that the Ten Commandments be posted "had no secular legislative purpose" and was "plainly religious in nature." The Court noted that the Commandments did not confine themselves to arguably secular matters (such as murder, stealing, etc.), but rather concerned matters such as the worship of God and the observance of the Sabbath Day.
“The preeminent purpose for posting the Ten Commandments on schoolroom walls is plainly religious in nature. The Ten Commandments are undeniably a sacred text in the Jewish and Christian faiths, and no legislative recitation of a supposed secular purpose can blind us to that fact. The Commandments do not confine themselves to arguably secular matters, such as honoring one's parents, killing or murder,  [449 U.S. 39, 42]  adultery, stealing, false witness, and covetousness. See Exodus 20:12-17; Deuteronomy 5:16-21.  Rather, the first part of the Commandments concerns the religious duties of believers: worshipping the Lord God alone, avoiding idolatry, not using the Lord's name in vain, and observing the Sabbath Day. See Exodus 20:1-11; Deuteronomy 5:6-15.

[,,,]
It does not matter that the posted copies of the Ten Commandments are financed by voluntary private contributions, for the mere posting of the copies under the auspices of the legislature provides the "official support of the State . . . Government" that the Establishment Clause prohibits. 374 U.S., at 222 ; see Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421, 431 (1962). 4 Nor is it significant that the Bible verses involved in this case are merely posted on the wall, rather than read aloud as in Schempp and Engel, for "it is no defense to urge that the religious practices here may be relatively minor encroachments on the First Amendment." Abington School District v. Schempp, supra, at 225. We conclude that Ky. Rev. [449 U.S. 39, 43]   Stat. 158.178 (1980) violates the first part of the Lemon v. Kurtzman test, and thus the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.
As a caveat, it is important to note that Barker mentions the 5-4 ruling of SCOTUS in Van Orden vs. Perry (2005).  In this instance, the Court ruled the monument conveyed both a religious and secular message in combination with the other monuments on the site. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details, there are instances where this mixing of messages has been allowed, but as Barker pointed out, "the purpose [in Alabama] is clearly religious."
After reading the Ten Commandments on the House floor, Rep. Richard Baughn, R-Lynn, said, "I don't know why anybody would disagree with these ten."

"We are the greatest nation on the Earth because God's hand of blessing has been on us," Baughn said.
Fourth, I am not sure what "roots" Bridges is referring to as it is obvious that history is not this man's strong suit.   The only document that matters in this country is the Constitution, a legal document devoid of any reference to God, Jesus and/or Christianity.  (Why do you think the religionists avoid it like the plague and cite the Declaration of Independence instead?  Why do you think the Convention of States bullshit is becoming popular in the Reich?  They want to re-write the Constitution as a means to support their vision of a theocratic nation.) All one has to do is look at the preamble which states, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union,,,."  The Founders knew what they were doing.  This was not an act of omission, but a deliberate means to keep government separate from religion.  "[T]he people" that is where the US government derives its power, not God; and definitely not the evangelical Christian God envisioned by the Reich.

How do I know this?  History tells me.

We have John Leland who opined in 1790, “The notion of a Christian commonwealth should be exploded forever,,,."  In 1797 the Treaty of Tripoli, approved by the Senate of the United States and signed by President John Adams states, "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion.”  Thomas Jefferson in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association called for a "wall of separation between church and State."  And James Madison who in the early 1800s continued the understanding of a secular government, " Strongly guarded...is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States."

These statements, and the many more like them, clearly show that our Founders and early religious leaders understood that religion needed to be separated from Government.  Taking that one step further (or back), history also teaches us that the writers of the Constitution created an independent government not only out of Enlightenment thinking but also borrowed from the ancient Greeks, Romans and Great Britain.

Great Britain?  But isn't Britain's common law, from which many precepts of the Constitution derive, founded on Christian principles making the the Constitution a Christian document?  What about the various Supreme Court Justices proclaiming that Christianity came as part of the laws of England, and therefore from its common law heritage?

According to the mighty words of Thomas Jefferson, we did in fact inherit common law from Great Britain.  Which as explained by Jefferson in his 1814 letter to Thomas Cooper was derived from pre-Christian Saxons rather than from Biblical scripture:
For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons, on their settlement in England, and altered, from time to time, by proper legislative authority, from that, to the date of the Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law, or lex non scripta, and commences that of the statute law, or lex scripta. This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century; but Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian King of the Heptarchy, having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here, then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it. If it ever, therefore, was adopted into the common law, it must have been between the introduction of Christianity and the date of the Magna Charta. But of the laws of this period, we have a tolerable collection, by Lambard and Wilkins; probably not perfect, but neither very defective; and if any one chooses to build a doctrine on any law of that period, supposed to have been lost, it is incumbent on him to prove it to have existed, and what were its contents. These were so far alterations of the common law, and became themselves a part of it; but none of these adopt Christianity as a part of the common law. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons, to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians; and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are able to find among them no such act of adoption; we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
I won't be so bold as to say that it is obvious that the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with Constitutional law.  I have been simplistic in my overview.  But if one spends the time to look into such claims made by Bridges and his ilk, you will reach the same conclusion.  What I will say without hesitation, it is obvious that those who promote the Ten Commandments as historical or foundational to our nation and government do it for religious reasons only, which contradicts our secular Constitution.

Instead of placing the Ten Commandments in State courthouses and schools why not place a more appropriate monument such as a plaque with the actual words of the Constitution itself?

Or better yet, make everyone sit and watch this famous clip from George Carlin:


Saturday, December 7, 2013

Sarah Palin - Liberty University Convocation





This was extremely painful to sit an listen to; I painfully sat through all 32 minutes. At about the 3 minute mark my IQ dropped about 50 points. The men with the white coats are now on their way; I shall be safely tucked away in a safe comfy padded room within the hour.  While I'm waiting, some thoughts that came to mind whilst listen to the word salad of Ms. Palin.

No, Thomas Jefferson would not be complaining about the war on Christmas, he would be leading it as he did not believe in the virgin birth narrative.  No virgin birth, no Christmas.
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823)
Some one needs to inform Ms. Palin that David Barton is not a historian and the ideas he puts forth in regards to our nation's founding are incorrect.  To imply that our Constitution was written by and only for moral (to be read as "real Christian folk") people, is disingenuous.  Her ethnocentric view of the world clouds her (“biblical”) view of America’s history.  The founding of our country is not linked to, or even a continuation of the New Testament; an “Exodus” for the new world as many of her ilk tend to believe.

Regretfully Ms, Palin it is you that is the revisionist.  It is you that ignores what our founders actually thought, felt and wrote about.  When the founding fathers spoke of religious freedom, that’s exactly what they meant; it was not a mandate for the supremacy of Christianity over all other religions.

Liberty University was founded in 1971, not 1791. "Thomas Jefferson and his thinking, I believe that much of it fundamentally came from this area, having spent his summers here, having spent influential years here, two miles away from Liberty University,,,"

Obviously, Ms Palin is not familiar with the Jefferson Bible (aka,The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth),  in which our esteemed former President cut and pasted numerous sections from the New Testament. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels (sections which dealt with the Resurrection, most miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine.)
"In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to themselves,,,There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. The result is an octavo of forty-six pages, of pure and unsophisticated doctrines." (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, John Adams Oct. 12, 1813)
No ma'm, I have no issue with what a private individual does on their own property, “Why is it they get to claim some offense taken when they see a plastic Jewish family on somebody’s lawn,,,."  What I have issue with is when a government entity endorses one religion to the detriment of others.  You are creating a false  equivalency confusing complaints about religious displays on public spaces with privately own property.

Jesus is not the reason for the season!!  As David Silverman of American Atheist points out, "Christianity has been trying to claim ownership of the season for hundreds of years. But the winter solstice came first and so did its traditions. The season belongs to everybody."  Our Christmas traditions are not Christian, do your homework before opening your maw to speak.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816)

Friday, December 14, 2012

The Real Thomas Jefferson - NYTimes.com

 Definitely makes one go hmm,,,learned something new,,,

 Neither Mr. Meacham, who mostly ignores Jefferson’s slave ownership, nor Mr. Wiencek, who sees him as a sort of fallen angel who comes to slavery only after discovering how profitable it could be, seem willing to confront the ugly truth: the third president was a creepy, brutal hypocrite.

Contrary to Mr. Wiencek’s depiction, Jefferson was always deeply committed to slavery, and even more deeply hostile to the welfare of blacks, slave or free. His proslavery views were shaped not only by money and status but also by his deeply racist views, which he tried to justify through pseudoscience.

There is, it is true, a compelling paradox about Jefferson: when he wrote the Declaration of Independence, announcing the “self-evident” truth that all men are “created equal,” he owned some 175 slaves. Too often, scholars and readers use those facts as a crutch, to write off Jefferson’s inconvenient views as products of the time and the complexities of the human condition.

But while many of his contemporaries, including George Washington, freed their slaves during and after the revolution — inspired, perhaps, by the words of the Declaration — Jefferson did not. Over the subsequent 50 years, a period of extraordinary public service, Jefferson remained the master of Monticello, and a buyer and seller of human beings.

The Real Thomas Jefferson - NYTimes.com

Thursday, June 7, 2012

My Take: How Thomas Jefferson’s secret Bible might have changed history – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

 During most of his two terms in the White House, from 1801 to 1809, and for more than a decade afterward, Jefferson – the third U.S. president and the principal author of the Declaration of Independence – committed himself to a radical reinterpretation of the Gospels.

[,,,]

In Jefferson’s view, this revision represented a faithful record of Christ’s moral code, minus the miracles that the Enlightenment-era founder dismissed as historical mythmaking.

[,,,]

Jefferson was still working on his Bible during his presidency, so its theoretical publication wouldn’t have compromised his electability. But if the book had been made public after its final completion in 1820, when Jefferson had only six more years to live, it likely would have become one of the most controversial and influential religious works of early American history.

[,,,]

Jefferson’s minimalist approach to the Gospels reveals an attitude that he disclosed only privately, just months before his death: “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."

My Take: How Thomas Jefferson’s secret Bible might have changed history – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs