They can't even agree on how long a day is,,,

Schroeder is the author of several books, including the just released "God According to God: A Physicist Proves We've Been Wrong About God All Along." But it's his 20-year-old "Genesis and the Big Bang" -- which seeks to reconcile the Bible with physics, cosmology and evolution -- that's still shaking the scientific and religious communities.

God created the universe in six days. Science says it took 15 billion years. How to reconcile those numbers? If you're Gerald Schroeder, the answer is simple: Do the math.

His thesis hinges on the fact that time is not a constant: It's relative, at least according to Albert Einstein. Schroeder insists that the biblical calendar begins with the appearance of Adam on the sixth day, not with the creation of the world. "Relativity," he says, "has proven the flexibility of time during those six pre-Adam days of Genesis."

Crticisms:

Peter Enns blasts the effort, saying it's "absurd that you can actually find physics in Genesis I."

But Karl Giberson,,,doesn't buy Schroeder's theory. "The Bible isn't set up with hidden codes based on 20th century science that couldn't have been understood by the writers of the text," he said.

Ken Ham, director of the Creation Museum and the organization "Answers in Genesis."

"The first thing I look at," said Ham, "is to question what is his ultimate motivation?"

,,,He said Schroeder "has accepted the secular view of 15 billion years as the age of the universe, so his ultimate motivation is to fit 15 billion years into the Bible's account. He then develops this model, to fit that model."

And this folks is partly why I believe (or disbelieve) in the way I do. They can't even figure out what the hell the first 2 chapters of the Bible are talking about when it uses the word day. Some believe in innerancy, infallibility, and inspiration of the text, some don't. Some are literalists other are more progressive in their reading. So who is right??

My take on the BIble #5

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

This implies that there is/was a single continent and a single ocean on the planet. In actuality there was, 250 million years ago, during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras; it was the super continent Pangaea. Only dilemma the creation story within Genesis is only dated 6000-10,000 yrs ago.

Prior to the break-up, about 180 million years ago, Pangaea was a roughly C-shaped landmass that was spread across the equator. The Tethys Sea was enclosed within the resulting crescent; the vast ocean that surrounded Pangaea has been named Panthalassa, which means "all seas".

1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Why does God keep checking to see that his creation was "good"?

1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Not going to get into too much of a criticism but some points that come to mind:

• Are Genesis 1 and 2 a continuous uniform story? Or are there two distinct scriptures (written many years apart, by two sources, with two differing emphases - physical vs. moral issues)?


• Compare Gen 1:11-13, (27-31) with Genesis 2:4-7. Plants first or man first?

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so .... And the evening and the morning were the third day...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them...And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

VS

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth ... And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.


• Take a closer look at Genesis 1:11 (and 1:24). In these verses God does not create plants and animals directly. Is this a sign that Genesis is not as anti-evolution as some would have us believe?



And God said, Let the earth bring forth,,,



• Just a side note, we still don't have a sun to regulate the climate(s) thereby making it impossible for plants to grow. If plants can't grow, how would they yield any seed(s)?

1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Once again, the Sun does not exist yet.

My take on the Bible #4

1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

What the heck is a "firmament" anyways? My basic understanding is that the firmament is a solid, dome-shaped structure in which the stars were placed. It separated the waters below from the waters above. From what little I have read it appears that this idea of a "firmanent" has sparked much discussion, especially in regards to the concept of flat-earthism. [At a later time I will try to gather the interesting reads concerning the "firmament" and a bit about flat earthism. Altho incompatible with today's science it's quite a fascinating read.]

My other question is where is this "firmament"? And why did God create it, if it no longer exists?

1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Again the "firmament" thing. Type it into Google and you know--4,000,000 hits. The notion that the sky was a vast solid dome seems to have been common among the ancient peoples whose ideas of cosmology have come down to us. The concept is present in Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, and Roman literature.

1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Wasn't "heaven" already created in Gen 1:1? Or is he just a naming phase? Is there a difference between the two?

For this verse to make sense, the firmament would have to exist, but it doesn’t.

There still is no Sun to account for “evening” and “morning.”

My take on the Bible #3

1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Last I knew we need a sun for light. Where is the light coming from since the sun has yet to be created.

To whom is God speaking? If he is doing all the creating, why does he need to “say” anything?


Update 6/16/2011: Thought this would be a good addition just for the fun of it Interactive Bible: Genesis 1:3. Thanks to @Autoantitheist Anon for the link.


1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

"[T]hat it was good" uhm,,,thought God made no junk, as some would say. If God is a perfect being how could he create anything bad? Also does this not question his omniscience, that God wasn't sure if the light was good or bad?

If God just created "light" doesn't that automatically make light separate from darkness? Why would "he" have "divided the two?

God creates light, separates light from darkness, and day from night. Yet the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) aren't created until the fourth day (1:14-19).

1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Wondering who God is speaking to, why is/does he need to assign names?

How can there be "morning" and "evening" when they are both defined by the rising and setting of the sun? The sun does not exist yet.

Why does God need a gender? Why is God referenced as a male?

My take on the Bible #2

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I thought God already created earth, so how could it be “without form” and “void,” did it really exist yet? In order for it to be distinguished from "heavens" (space), it must have some kind of form.

The “face of the waters” uhm,,,ok,,,where'd they come from? Primal sludge maybe? If the earth had no "form" I'm thinking no gravity, so was this water just enveloping the hunk of earth? Free floating in space ("heavens" or maybe atmosphere as we know it today)? Did God create these waters, or did they exist all along?

How can the "darkness" be understood without prior knowledge of "light" which hasn't been created yet?

What is the difference between “God” and “the Spirit of God”?

My take on the Bible #1

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

It is generally accepted by anti-theist that there are two creation accounts described in the opening book of the Bible, theist do not do not always agree. Either way you look at it the story in Gen 1 conflicts with the story in Gen 2:4-25,,,the order of events are entirely different.

As I read it, "in the beginning" means that heaven and earth were created together, but scientific evidence does not and cannot support this. According to studies generally accepted by the scientific community our solar system formed about 4.5 billions years ago, which means that the Universe must be at least twice that old, because before our solar system formed, our Milky Way galaxy had to form, and that probably took several billions years by itself. The evidence estimates that the age of the Universe is at least 15 billion years old, but probably not more than 20 billion years old.

The order of events known from science is opposite of what is listed in Genesis: the earth is created (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars (1:16); birds and whales (1:21) before reptiles and insects (1:24); and flowering plants (1:11) before any animals (1:20).

What does “heaven” refer to? If the earth was "without form" or "formless" (v2) then it follows it could not be the atmosphere; no form, no gravity to hold an atmosphere. Is "heaven" then the universe outside of planet earth. If that is the case, then where did God exist before He “created” space? For that matter, where does God exist now?

[Responses I have heard in the past--God exists “outside” of normal space. God exists in the “spiritual realm.” God exists “outside of creation.” But without defining the meaning of “outside creation” or “spiritual realm,” this kind of response is simply an appeal to emotion IMHO.

The “beginning” of what? What did God do before the beginning? Who created God?

One of the standard responses to these questions is the Cosmological Argument. Simply stated: everything in the world requires a cause; by induction into the past, there must exist a “first cause” that initiated all future events. This first cause is God.

A good introductory article concerning the minutae of the Cosmological Argument

My response to the cosmological argument is that the universe does not necessarily require a creator. The universe may be “just there, and that’s all,” and
may have always existed into the infinite past. (Borrowed from Bertrand Russell)

The Bible makes no mention of the actual physical processes that take place when God does his creating.

Why does God need to create anything? If God is a perfect and eternally “complete,” and if God sees that something is missing and needs to create it, it therefore implies that this god is not perfect to begin with.

The creation story assumes many aspects of how the universe came to be, a monotheistic religious outlook. Most scientists argue that "God" is not a scientifically proven cause; current acceptable evidence does not verify a deity’s existence.