Showing posts with label Beyond the Trailer Park. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Beyond the Trailer Park. Show all posts

Wednesday, October 2, 2019

Show Notes:: Ep 202:: We Talk Christian Science and Mary Baker Eddy



Introduction
CS has always fascinated me as I had 2-3 in my extended family, if you count my bro's piano teacher. I always found it odd the great auntie wore glasses – based on my understanding back some 40 years ago. (As we will find out there is no issue with that,,, I still find it odd though.)

So when this article popped, it caught my attention. [Audio] You see, as the article notes, “In many US states, Scientists were exempt from charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment, as well as from failure to report such crimes." That of course really got my attention. While the RCC has its problem with pedo priest, CS (and others) rather just murder their children through medical neglect.

And it's not just the kids they like to kill. Basically if you are a CS follower, if you get sick or become injured, you may as well kiss your ass good-bye. “A whole system of Christian Science “nursing” sprang up in unlicensed Christian Science sanatoriums and nursing homes,,, But some of these facilities, and the incompetent care they provide, are covered by Medicare, the US’s national healthcare insurance program."

Overview
So before we delve in to article, it is important to know what is CS, who founded it and when, and what they believe. My initial outline was lifted from Wiki, just as an FYI, hopefully I have been able to fill in some gaps with other material.

Simply put, Christian Science is a set of beliefs and practices that puts forth the general notion that sickness is an illusion that can be corrected by prayer alone. IOWs, faith healing.

BUT,,,

The church does not require that Christian Scientists avoid all medical care—adherents use dentists, optometrists, obstetricians, physicians for broken bones, and vaccination when required by law—but maintains that Christian-Science prayer is most effective when not combined with medicine.

It was developed in 19th-century New England by Mary Baker Eddy, who argued in her 1875 book Science and Health that prayer alone would suffice in correcting what ails you.

Eddy and followers were granted a charter in 1879 to found the Church of Christ, Scientist, and in 1894 the Mother Church, The First Church of Christ, Scientist, was built in Boston, Massachusetts. Christian Science became the fastest growing religion in the United States but has since declined. The Christian Science Monitor, a Pulitzer Prize winning paper is owned by the church as well as numerous Reading Rooms around the world.

Eddy described Christian Science as a return to "primitive Christianity and its lost element of healing". There are key differences between Christian Science theology and that of more traditional Christianity. In particular, adherents subscribe to a radical form of philosophical idealism, believing that reality is purely spiritual and the material world an illusion. This includes the view that disease is a mental error rather than physical disorder, and that the sick should be treated not by medicine but by a form of prayer that seeks to correct the beliefs responsible for the illusion of ill health.

Origin
CS came forth from the revival period of the late 1800s based in the mind-cure movement; a strong focus on healing.

The movement trace its roots to Phineas Parkhurst Quimby (1802–1866), a mental healer, whose motto was "the truth is the cure." Mary Baker Eddy was associated with Quimby leading to debate about how much of Christian Science was based on his ideas. Although there are differences in thought.

Beliefs
CS consider their theology to be mainstream, influenced
by Eddy's Congregationalist upbringing. According to the church's tenets, adherents accept "the inspired Word of the Bible as [their] sufficient guide to eternal Life ... acknowledge and adore one supreme and infinite God ... [and] acknowledge His Son, one Christ; the Holy Ghost or divine Comforter; and man in God's image and likeness."

Eddy also proposed that Christian Science was a kind of second coming and that Science and Health was an inspired text. In 1895, in the Manual of the Mother Church, she ordained the Bible and Science and Health as "Pastor over the Mother Church".

"The second appearing of Jesus is, unquestionably, the spiritual advent of the advancing idea of God, as in Christian Science."


Eddy, January 1901: "I should blush to write of Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures as I have, were it of human origin, and I, apart from God, its author. But, as I was only a scribe echoing the harmonies of heaven in divine metaphysics, I cannot be super-modest in my estimate of the Christian Science textbook."

Differences to Christianity
Christian Science theology differs in several respects from that of traditional Christianity. Eddy's Science and Health reinterprets key Christian concepts, including the Trinity, divinity of Jesus, atonement, and resurrection; beginning with the 1883 edition, she added with a Key to the Scriptures to the title and included a glossary that redefined the Christian vocabulary. At the core of Eddy's theology is the view that the spiritual world is the only reality and is entirely good, and that the material world, with its evil, sickness and death, is an illusion.

Reinterprets key Christian concepts
For example. Eddy accepted as true the creation narrative in the Book of Genesis up to chapter 2, verse 6—that God created man in his image and likeness—but she rejected the rest "as the story of the false and the material", according to Wilson.

the Trinity
Her theology is nontrinitarian: she viewed the Trinity as suggestive of polytheism. She saw Jesus as a Christian Scientist, a "Way-shower" between humanity and God, and she distinguished between Jesus the man and the concept of Christ, the latter a synonym for Truth and Jesus the first person fully to manifest it.

Atonement and resurrection
The crucifixion was not a divine sacrifice for the sins of humanity, the atonement (the forgiveness of sin through Jesus's suffering) "not the bribing of God by offerings", writes Wilson, but an "at-one-ment" with God.

Life after death/soul
Her views on life after death were vague and, according to Wilson, "there is no doctrine of the soul" in Christian Science: "[A]fter death, the individual continues his probationary state until he has worked out his own salvation by proving the truths of Christian Science." Eddy did not believe that the dead and living could communicate.

The influence of Phineas Parkhurst Quimby
He view that disease was a mental stat; that disease was something their minds could control

His work was published posthumously as The Quimby Manuscripts in 1921—and was generous in allowing his patients to copy one of his essays, "Questions and Answers." This became an issue, from 1883 on-wards, when Eddy was accused of having based Christian Science on his work.
Sally Wentworth
Sally Wentworth, another Spiritualist, offered Eddy $300-worth of bed and board in Stoughton if Eddy would treat her daughter's lung condition and teach Wentworth the healing method. Eddy stayed there for two years, from 1868 to 1870, teaching Wentworth with Quimby's unpublished essay, "Questions and Answers." She acknowledged that the manuscript was Quimby's, and spoke often of how she had promised to teach his healing method, which at the time she called Moral Science.

Mary B. Glover's Christian Scientists' Home
Christian Scientists' Association
Spofford and seven other students agreed to form an association that would pay Eddy a certain amount a week if she would preach to them every Sunday. They called themselves the Christian Scientists' Association.

Her book
Initially called The Science of Life, 1874. The book—Science and Health by Mary Baker Glover, with eight chapters and 456 pages—finally appeared on October 30, 1875, published in the name of the Christian Science Publishing Company.

To the 6th edition in 1883, Eddy added with a Key to the Scriptures (later retitled with Key to the Scriptures), a 20-page glossary containing her definitions of biblical terms. The book sold 15,000 copies between 1875 and 1885.

When the copyright on Science and Health expired in 1971, the church persuaded Congress to extend it to 2046. The law was overturned as unconstitutional in 1987, after a challenge by United Christian Scientists, an independent group.[175] By 2001 Science and Health had sold over nine million copies.

The article
Now I dont want to get too deep into the health claims made by Eddy, and CS as a whole, but they were a major drawing point.

The early popularity of Christian Science was tied directly to the promise engendered by its core beliefs: the promise of healing. The overwhelming majority of those attracted to the movement came to be healed, or came because a husband, wife, child, relative or friend needed healing; the claims of Christian Science were so compelling that people often stayed in the movement whether they found healing or not, blaming themselves and not the church’s teachings for any apparent failures.
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But ultimately it was the beginnings of its eventual downfall, although it took 70+ years for that to happen. Even back in its heyday alarm bells where evident.

Newspapers and prosecutors noticed the casualties, especially children dying of unreported cases of diphtheria and appendicitis. In the early years of the church, this touched off battles with the American Medical Association, which tried to have Christian Science healers, or “practitioners”, arrested for practising medicine without a licence. Since practitioners did nothing but pray, however, their activities were protected by the US constitution. Reacting with righteous zeal, Church leaders doubled down for decades, furtively slipping protections into the law and encouraging insurance companies to cover Christian Science “treatment”. Since it cost very little, the companies cynically complied.


Faith healing is widely practiced by Christian Scientists, Pentecostalists, the Church of the First Born, the Followers of Christ, and myriad smaller sects. Many of these believers reject all medical treatment in favor of prayer, anointing with oils, and sometimes exorcisms. Some even deny the reality of illness. When they reject medical treatment for their children, they may be guilty of negligence and homicide. Until recently, religious shield laws have protected them from prosecution; but the laws are changing, as are public attitudes. Freedom of religion has come into conflict with the duty of society to protect children. The right to believe does not extend to the right to endanger the lives of children. A new book by Cameron Stauth, In the Name of God: The True Story of the Fight to Save Children from Faith-Healing Homicide, provides the chilling details of the struggle. He is a master storyteller; the book grabs the reader’s attention like a fictional thriller and is hard to put down. He is sympathetic to both the perpetrators and the prosecutors of religion-motivated child abuse, and he makes their personalities and their struggles come alive.

Hall then goes on to tell the story of Rita and Doug Swan. Rita went on to found the Matthew Project, which developed into a foundation called CHILD (Children’s Healthcare Is a Legal Duty) 

In 1998, pediatrician Seth Asser and Rita Swan published an article in the medical journal Pediatrics entitled “Child Fatalities from Religion-motivated MedicalNeglect“. They documented 172 faith-healing deaths over a 20-year period, involving 23 different sects in 34 states. 

But as the main article notes this led to “an incredible array of legal rights and privileges across the US.”

As a result, by the 1970s – a high-water mark for the church’s political power, with many Scientists serving in Richard Nixon’s White House and federal agencies – the church was well on its way to accumulating an incredible array of legal rights and privileges across the US, including broad-based religious exemptions from childhood immunisations in 47 states, as well as exemptions from routine screening tests and procedures given to newborns in hospitals. The exemptions had consequences: modern-day outbreaks of diphtheria, polio and measles in Christian Science schools and communities. A 1972 polio outbreak in Connecticut left multiple children partially paralysed; a 1985 measles outbreak (one of several) at Principia College in Illinois killed three.

This led to a whole array of issues, with the consequences being felt today.

In many US states, Scientists were exempt from charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment, as well as from failure to report such crimes. Practitioners with no medical training (they become “listed” after two weeks of religious indoctrination) were recognised as health providers, and in some states were required to report contagious illnesses or cases of child abuse or neglect, even as their religion demanded that they deny the evidence of the physical senses. Practitioners, of course, have no way of recognising the symptoms of an illness, even if they believe it existed, which they don’t.

Example (2014), pretty sad when specific piece of legislation needs to be introduced to eliminate an exemption in Washington state law that allows Christian Scientists—but not members of other religious groups—to treat their children with prayer or faith-healing methods instead of traditional medicine. 

If I am reading information correctly this bill did not pass.  My Google-foo seemed to be lacking in finding more exact information.


And while the AV stance has been around since day one, CS has had a hand in the mess we now have. What the author describes is horrid.

A whole system of Christian Science “nursing” sprang up in unlicensed Christian Science sanatoriums and nursing homes catering to patients with open wounds and bodies eaten away by tumours. There, no medical treatment was allowed to interfere with prayer. Assigned only the most basic duties – feeding and cleaning patients – Christian Science “nurses” are not registered, and have no medical training either. Instead, they engage in bizarre practices such as leaving food on the mouths of patients who cannot eat. They provide no assistance for those who are having trouble breathing, administer no painkillers, react to no emergencies. “Do not resuscitate” is their default. But some of these facilities, and the incompetent care they provide, are covered by Medicare, the US’s national healthcare insurance programme.

Now bear in mind, I have no issue with what grown adults do to themselves. While I may not agree, it is your personal decision. The only caveat to that is when issues of public health are being undermined. What I do take issue with, when your stupidity is foisted upon children and the elderly; or when you promise a cure/treatment that is medically unproven and in some cases out right dangerous – MMS, UT, Turp, JJ, etc.

An apt observation by the author,

Still, by this point, few people know or care what the Christian Scientists have been up to, since the average person can’t tell you the difference between a Christian Scientist and a Scientologist. The decline of the faith, once a major indigenous sect, may be among the most dramatic contractions in the history of American religion.

While I was aware that the interest in CS was waning, I did not realize how drastic the drop,

in 1961, the year I was born, the number of branch churches worldwide reached a high of 3,273. By the mid-80s, the number in the US had dropped to 1,997; between 1987 and late 2018, 1,070 more closed, while only 83 opened, leaving around a thousand in the US.

The slide into irrelevance has been inexorable. The number of practitioners has fallen to an all-time low of 1,126, and during the last decade the Sentinel magazine has lost more than half its subscribers. The Monitor, the public face of the Church, has become a kind of zombie newspaper, laying off 30% of its staff in 2016. It is now available as a five-days-a-week emailed newsletter, or a thin print weekly that has been bleeding subscribers.

I find this a bit telling,

But the reality of the existential crisis remained elusive to church officials. In 2005, Nathan Talbot and J Thomas Black, longtime church leaders who had promoted recklessly irresponsible policies encouraging the medical neglect of children, endorsed ambitious plans for raising the dead. Black argued that Eddy wanted to keep alive the possibility of defeating mortality, saying, “What would set us apart as a denomination more than raising the dead?” What indeed? Black himself has had ample opportunity to demonstrate it: he died in December 2011, and hasn’t been seen since.

The author continues,

But for all its attempts to reach a wider world, the church has found that the world could not care less.

Were this true for all religious belief!! While it sounds harsh, I am a firm believer that ALL religious mythos must die. When you have a religious leader(Peter LaRuffa) who states that he would believe the Bible even if it said 2+2=5, we are in a world of hurt.

If I remember correctly, the context of the statement was in regards to biblical innerrancy and by his statement he would prefer to believe nonsense that he does not understand rather than allow evidence to show his doctrine of biblical inerrancy to be false.
And so he is not standing up for the truthfulness of the Bible. He is, on the contrary, showing that his beliefs about the Bible are unfalsifiable, that they cannot be tested and so are “not even wrong.”

What follows at this point is the story of the author's father. It's not pleasant. But the kicker, and while the fake nurse may have believed what she was saying, she was lying through her teeth.

The following month, he hired a Christian Science nurse to stop by. She watched him struggle to wash his foot, and loftily told him that she had seen such conditions “healed completely” by Christian Science. She gave him sanitary napkins to wrap his foot in, urging him to see it solely as a mental problem.

According to the article it wasn't until 2010 that the church began to rethink the whole notion of prayer alone for healing

By 2010, signs of the church’s impending mortality had become so unmistakable that officials took a previously inconceivable step. They threw Mary Baker Eddy under the bus. A century after the death of their “beloved founder and leader”, the directors took her most precious principle, radical reliance – requiring Scientists to hew solely to prayer – and renounced it in the pages of the New York Times.

But as the author notes, a little too late,

,,,glossed over the scores of bodies left in the church’s wake. No one will ever know how many, because the church does not keep statistics.

Fraser mentions more than 50 Christian Science parents or practitioners who have been charged with crimes for allowing children to suffer or die of treatable conditions.

While, according to Fraser, the church had begun “pulling back on aggressive state lobbying, often taking a neutral position on religious shield laws,,, Neither Davis nor any other official has expressed remorse for a century of suffering and death caused by the church. And while the softening may have curtailed medical neglect involving children of Scientists, it has done nothing to stem abuse by other sects – abuse the church alone enabled.”

IOWs, it is analogous to the pedo priests,,,

It was the Christian Science church that put religious exemptions to child abuse on the books, opening a Pandora’s box and releasing all manner of religious extremists and militant anti-vaccination fanatics. It was church officials who engineered the 1970s US federal regulation that led to virtually every state enacting laws allowing parents to neglect children and get away with it.

Fraser goes on to mention Doug and Rita Swan mentioning the repeal in Oregon and ensuing debacle in Idaho.

The Oregon legislature became so ashamed of allowing Followers of Christ, a Pentecostal faith-healing group, to fill a cemetery with newborns and stillborn children that it repealed its religious exemption laws in 2011. But some Followers simply picked up and moved to Idaho, which has become the go-to state if you are prepared to let your kids die.

Fraser, I believe, asked a pertinent set of questions,

So did the softening of some Christian Science attitudes suggest that the church was undergoing a genuine change of heart? Or were they trying to save their jobs, their pride and the institution?

Questions that can also be ask of not just the RCC, but other institutions dealing with the pedo priests. In my experience, aggregating reports of various abuses within the entire religious community, whether its pedo priests, anti-LGBTQI+, child neglect, or even financial fraud etc, any actions taken by THE CHURCH is one big ole PR campaign.

Fraser sums it up well,

It is hard, at this late date, to be moved by Scientists’ threadbare theological squabbles and internecine court battles, by the minutiae of their predicaments. The church deserves to die, and it is dying. It just can’t happen soon enough.

Fraser finishes by describing her father's last days, concluding with this,

Sometime after his death, I dreamed about him. I was alone in a warehouse – a dark, menacing space – and in it my father had dissolved into a miasma, covering the floor with a kind of deadly, toxic slime. Somehow, I was tasked with the problem of cleaning it up, without ever touching it. It was, of course, impossible.

That is where Christian Science leaves us. It could disappear today or tomorrow or years from now, but its own beliefs, and the religious exemptions it has seeded in laws all across the US, will leave a disaster in their wake, resulting in lives ruined, in unnecessary suffering and death, and in legislation that allows every crackpot cult and anti-vaccination zealot to sacrifice their children. Christian Scientists can renounce Eddy all they want, but it will not undo the evil they have done. That is their legacy.


This was a response/rebuttal also from he Guardian,
,,,yet her depiction of the Christian Science church is almost unrecognisable based on my own experience. Yes, like many other Christian denominations, our church has had important lessons to learn – and has seen a decline in numbers. But the Christian Scientists I know strive to provide unconditional support for their loved ones, with each individual free to choose the type of healthcare, including medical, that is most effective for them. The five years I spent as administrator of a Christian Science care home – a place full of joy and longevity for those choosing spiritual healing – were far from what Ms Fraser describes. 


Monday, July 30, 2018

Show Notes::MRFF opponents seek Trump's help, w/ Chris Rodda




Latest bit of news concerning MRFF encompasses a few recent news items of interest -- Todd Starnes (and Mike Huckabee), Robert Jeffress and the DoD, and POW/MIA tables. While the Jeffress/Starnes fiasco are important, our focus is going to be the POW/MIA tables, but to understand the "news" about the tables, one needs to be aware of the preceding garbage.

Where to find Chris
MRFF
Sekulow and MRFF

Trump’s lawyer and Chief Counsel of the ACLJ (American Center for Law and Justice) https://aclj.org/, a politically conservative, Christian-based social activism and watchdog organization associated with Regent University School of Law in Virginia; IOWs Pat Robertson. In some circles they are consider the anti- American Civil Liberties Union. Jay Sekulow, who I will mention as reference and not criticism, is a Messianic Jew, is so hot and bothered by MRFF’s fight in Okinawa.

Now MRFFs history with Sekulow is fairly encompassing. https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/2017/08/8917-trumps-lawyer-and-chief-counsel-of-the-aclj-jay-sekulow-attacks-mikeymrff-outlandish-angry-atheist-attack-claims-conference-that-includes-facebook-and-google-executives-somehow-vi/ Of interest to us tonight is a piece (actually two) you did concerning the "DMZ flag" at the Air Force’s Enlisted Heritage Hall, a museum at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama.

What the “DMZ flag” is all about?

The exhibit in question consisted of a mannequin in an airman's uniform standing next to a Christian chapel flag with a sign telling the following story:

"This Christian Flag is significant because it was rescued from the ruins of an American Chapel that ultimately found itself situated in the Demilitarized Zone separating North and South Korea. In 1960, a young A1C Luke Holcomb, was assigned to the post along the Demilitarized Zone. From his duty section he could see what remained of the chapel and was fascinated by the site [sic] of the U.S. and Christian flags leaning against the rear corner of the building. One night, he and three friends swam across the river separating them from the chapel, and at the risk of death, they liberated the flags. It was his wish that this flag be displayed in dedication of the Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen who risked their lives during the Korean Conflict."


So, how does the ACLJ twist the facts about MRFF’s efforts to get the historically dubious story of the airman allegedly retrieving the Christian chapel flag from the Korean DMZ in 1960 removed? Well, for starters, by claiming that MRFF is attacking history.
Its petition-signer-getting article, titled “Defend the Chaplain Flag, the Cross, and Christians Who Serve Our Nation,” begins:
In the latest attack by Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), the target is not only the United States military (MRFF’s venomous specialty) but is also an attack on history, in this case the history of the Korean War.”

Other media concerning “DMZ flag”
Group wants Maxwell AFB museum to remove Christian flag from exhibit
Exhibit Director at Maxwell exchange emails with Rodda
Defend the Chaplain Flag, the Cross, and Christians Who Serve Our Nation (ACLJ)

Jeffress and MRFF
On June 24, 2018, "First Baptist Dallas", the Texas mega-church pastored by Robert Jeffress, had its annual “Freedom Sunday” event. During this event, Robert Jeffress was initially advertised as delivering his presentation titled “America is a Christian Nation.” During a “Salute to our U.S. Armed Forces” portion of the event, the official seals of the branches of the U.S. Armed Forces were to be very largely and prominently displayed. The display of these official seals by any non-federal entity is strictly prohibited,,,



MRFF not only contacted Jeffress but the DoD (Defense Secretary Jim Mattis) as well, as a result,,, did Jeffress comply considering “First Baptist Church released a statement Friday: "We plan to honor our military this Sunday at our Celebrate Freedom services, as planned." “

First Baptist Dallas removed, TODAY, a video and image of the official Military Department Seals from its website promoting the event. Thus, all indications are that these same Seals will NOT be illegally used at this weekend's "Freedom Sunday" event as they had been previously and in DIRECT VIOLATION of the DoD guidance entitled "Important Information and Guidelines About the Use of Department of Defense Seals, Logos, Insignia, and Service Medals."

What is an important take-away from this bit of news, “Department of Defense guidelines allow use of Armed Forces seals only for official military use. The MRFF says the church's use of the seals in its program makes it appear the Armed Forces endorses the event, which is this Sunday.” That first sentence should end it right there,,, but to often it does not.

In the last week, a media company removed controversial billboards which showed the title for Freedom Sunday, "America is a Christian Nation." http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/06/18/america-is-a-christian-nation-billboards-come-down-in-dallas-after-complaints/

Other media

Starnes and MRFF

Like Sekulow, MRFF has a “storied” history with Starnes but for our purposed tonight, our interest is concerning his recent whinge RE Jeffress mentioned prior. https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/pentagon-tells-church-to-remove-military-seals-after-complain/

What makes this newsworthy, as MRFF notes, *Original Headline Read: "Pentagon Tells Church to Remove Military Seals After Atheist Group Complains". Revised Headline Reads: "Pentagon Tells Church to Remove Military Seals After Complaints" (Saturday, June 23, 2018). You see, recently MRFF had to send a cease and desist letter to Starnes to stop calling MRFF an “atheist” organization. It's really comic gold in the snark category, but obviously got the point across.


There was a time when I thought perhaps you were innocently confusing the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) with a separate, unrelated, organization by the name of Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF). You’ve no doubt seen their television commercials with President Reagan’s son, Ron. The Military Religious Freedom Foundation is different. It is not an atheist organization. It is a secular civil rights advocacy organization of which approximately 96% of its current and retired armed forces clients are Christian as are about 80% of the Foundation staffers.
Given that this has occurred a number of times I would like to ask a favor. Would you please have someone in the Fox News legal department, preferably an attorney who knows something about the law of libel and slander, call me so that I can have a conversation with them about what in the world it is going to take to impress upon you the need to stop doing this.

Following, or about the same time (the time frames of when shit actually happened gets a bit blurry), this happened, in Todd Starnes’ new opinion piece on Foxnews.com, http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/19/todd-starnes-air-force-surrenders-to-demand-to-replace-bible-with-generic-book-faith-on-powmia-table.html the vocal detractor calls MRFF a “militant organization” rather than “atheist organization.” So the letter appears to have worked for the moment. But where Starnes goes into bizarro-land, he “urge[s] the Trump administration to defend the POW/MIA tables.” IOWs defy the Constitution.

Tweeting,

And stating in a subsequent OPed, “Let’s cut to the chase – President Trump needs to immediately intervene and put a stop to these ugly attacks from the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.” https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/air-force-base-defends-replacing-bible-with-generic-book-of-faith/

Just to note, Starnes' over-the-top reaction also coincides with another MRFF victory in my home city of Buffalo. And just so people are aware, it is not the tables nor the symbolism of the tables MRFF and others are fighting against, it is the placement of the Bible. A point we will delve into a bit more later.

Huckabee
You know this bloviating fucknut couldn't be too far behind in all this,,,

This is an issue I'd love to see the president interject himself into. I'd love to see him say, as commander in chief of the military, 'Put the Bible back on the table. Let's not be stupid about this.'”
As noted by Chris, now the FRC has chimed in,,,
___________________________________________________________________________________
So with that bit of house keeping out of the why we come to the crux of tonight's show – POW/MIA tables.

A thought I have concerning this apparent merging of narratives. It is well known that one of the Reich's tactic is to throw spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks – ie the various anti-LGBT bills we saw similar to the debacle in AZ kinda sorta ending with Pence's mess that initiated numerous corporate boycotts in IN. http://interestinghmm.blogspot.com/2015/10/lines-being-drawn-for-indianas-next.html. It is a tactic put forth by the pro-fetus organizations adopted by the anti-LGBT crowd and now appears to be trickling into the various military cases.

Now the SOCAS work MRFF has engaged in is very necessary. There are blatant violations, one would have to be a complete idiot not to see such IMO. But yet, the Reich's objects. Do you think, that these objections to the removal of the Bible (and Seals) are a new flavor of spaghetti?

The Beginning as I know it, (or I should say when I started to pay more attention). The MIA table issue “began” around 2016. As Chris notes the changing of the tradition began much much earlier,,,

2/25/16 - New Testament Bible Removed from Akron, OH VA POW/MIA Table http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2016/Akron_VA_2-25-16.html
4/4/16 - New Testament Bible Removed from Youngstown, OH VA POW/MIA Table http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/Youngstown_VA_Victory_4_4_16.html
4/8/16 - New Testament Bible Removed from Wright Patterson AFB, OH POW/MIA Table http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/OHIO_HatTrick_4_8_16.html
4/11/16 - New Testament Bible Removed from Houston, TX VA POW/MIA Table http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/MRFF_4th_Victory_POW_MIA_4_11_16.html
4/19/16 - New Testament Bible Removed from Tobyhanna, PA VA POW/MIA Table http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2016/TobyhannaArmyDepotPOW_MIA_4-19-16.html
9/16/16 - New Testament Bible Removed from Eglin AFB, FL Allergy Clinic Table https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/bibleRemoved_Eglin_USAFbase_9_16_16.html
10/18/16 - MRFF commends Chillicothe Veteran Affairs Medical Center (VAMC) in Athens Ohio, for prompt New Testament Bible removal from Medical Health Clinic http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/bibleRemoved_Athens_10_17_16V2.html
Nov 2017 - DENVER VA MEDICAL CENTER PROMPTLY REMOVES UNCONSTITUTIONAL BIBLE FROM "MISSING MAN TABLE!" https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2017/DENVER_VA_MEDICAL_CENTER_REMOVES_BIBLE_NOVEMBER_2017.html
June 2018 - Group files IG complaint against Navy over Bible included in Okinawa POW/MIA display http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2018/MRFF_Stars_Stripes_DodIG_June_2018.html
MRFF SENDS OFFICIAL DoD/IG COMPLAINT LETTER RE: OKINAWA NAVAL BASE; DEMANDS BIBLE REMOVAL https://www.stripes.com/news/group-files-ig-complaint-against-navy-over-bible-included-in-okinawa-pow-mia-display-1.534982
July 2018 - MRFF's Efforts Lead to Bible Replacement at F.E. Warren AFB, Special Thanks to Colonel Stacy J. Huser, Wing Commander of the 90th Missile Wing at F.E. Warren Air Force Base (AFB) http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2018/_Warren_Bible_Replaced_2018.html
July 2018 - MRFF's PERSISTENCE LEADS TO BUFFALO, NEW YORK's VA MEDICAL CENTER REMOVING UNAUTHORIZED BIBLES FROM POW/MIA TABLE! http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/2018/VA_Buffalo_Bibles_Removed_2018.html

The Okinowa and FEWarren issues seem to be the ones stuck in the Reich's craw. But as you can see, this is not a new issue concerning the tables.

What exactly is a POW/MIA table and when did it get it's start?
The Missing Man Table is a place of honor, set up in military dining facilities of the U.S. armed forces and during occasions such as service branch birthday balls, in memory of fallen, missing, or imprisoned military service-members. The table serves as the focal point of ceremonial remembrance, originally growing out of US concern of the Vietnam War POW/MIA issue. From my understanding, the tables are only used at dine-in functions.
The original tradition of these tables started by the River Rats in 1967 did NOT include a Bible, and
neither does the American Legion's version, which sticks to the original tradition. We are not trying totake away a tradition, as the fundies are claiming to get their followers all outraged; we are trying to
RESTORE this tradition to the original one that honored POWs and MIAs of ALL religions or no religion.

General symbolism, although there are variations in some things that do not appear to this layman understanding to take away from the meaning.

Symbolism

This description is from Wiki for simplicity sake. Concecus sems to agree from othre readings with the only discrepancy being the inclusion of the Bible; which we will get to.

  • Table: set for one, is small, symbolizing the frailty of one isolated prisoner.
  • Tablecloth is white, symbolic of the purity of their intentions to respond to their country’s call to arms.
  • Single red rose in the vase, signifies the blood that many have shed in sacrifice to ensure the freedom of America.
  • The red ribbon (yellow ribbon for Air Force ceremonies) represents the love of our country
  • Slice of lemon on the bread plate: represents the bitter fate of the missing.
  • Salt sprinkled on the bread plate: symbolic of the countless fallen tears of families as they wait.
  • Inverted glass: represents the fact that the missing and fallen cannot partake.
  • Lit candle: reminiscent of the light of hope which lives in our hearts to illuminate their way home, away from their captors, to the open arms of a grateful nation.
  • Empty chair: the missing and fallen aren't present.
Notice what is missing in that description?

That above description from my understanding is what the RiverRats intended when THEY began the tradition in 1967.


MRFF first filed a complaint about the display with Rear Adm. Paul Pearigen, Navy Medicine West commander, on April 5. The Navy later said it investigated the matter but found that including the Bible was “consistent with Department of the Navy and Department of Defense guidance, as well as the U.S. Constitution.”
,,,
The official Navy or Defense Department stance on Bibles being included in POW/MIA “Missing Man” table displays remains unclear. However, a report on the Navy’s website from 2014 describes the Bible as being an official part of the display. https://www.stripes.com/news/group-files-ig-complaint-against-navy-over-bible-included-in-okinawa-pow-mia-display-1.534982

In general news sources, things like some POW/MIA orgs, and the like there is nary a mention of the Red River Valley Fighter Pilots Association ... River Rats is just their nickname ... and the organization still exists today. Its as if the guys never existed because they didn't worship like the theonuts in power so their contribution to the remembrance of are missing is of no consequence.


'America's White Table by Margot Theis Raven. The book explains why members of the military set a single white table in mess halls as a way to honor fallen or missing soldiers.

America's White Table, Jul 9 2005 | Video | C-SPAN.org https://www.c-span.org/video/?185999-1/americas-white-table Margot begins at the 10:17 mark reading from her book.

Okinawa Table

If you remember, I mentioned Jay Sekulow, this is the bit where he comes into play

Trump’s lawyer and Chief Counsel of the ACLJ, Jay Sekulow, is so hot and bothered by MRFF’s fight in Okinawa, he had the ACLJ team put together a rambling 12-page letter of their own promoting bigoted religious favoritism — which includes plentiful,absolutely fake, and discredited historical statements and an enormous amount of inapplicable/bogus caselaw — it’s posted on their website’s front page! http://media.aclj.org/pdf/LTR-Garrison-7-2-18_Redacted.pdf






Tuesday, May 2, 2017

Show Notes: Atheists on Air: Beyond the Trailer Park Ep. 108: Barton is at it Again! With Chris Rodda

Below are sections of the article we talked about.  What is is important, that our legislators are not making policy based on this charlatan and lying piece of shit.  Whether it be due to laziness or ignorance, this information needs to get out there.


Article we will be discussing:: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/history-advisor-to-members-…
Liars website:: http://www.liarsforjesus.com/index.html
Chris on HuffPost:: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/chris-rodda
Chris on Talk2Action:: http://www.talk2action.org/user/Chris%20Rodda
On Twitter:: https://twitter.com/ChrisRodda1

_____
Pseudo-historian David Barton, best known for his misquoting of our country’s founders to promote the notion that America was founded as a Christian nation, also has a habit of telling some pretty tall tales about his own life. There was his claim of being a college basketball star, his claim of having been a translator for the Russian women’s national gymnastics team, and most recently his claim of having an earned doctorate. But while most of Barton’s bio-embellishing claims have either been proven to be false or are so far-fetched that they are just impossible to believe, there is one that is unfortunately all too true – that he advises many members of Congress on historical subjects. This isn’t just another bogus claim made up by Barton to exaggerate his achievements and impress his audience. It has been repeatedly confirmed by members of Congress who have praised Barton by proclaiming that he is their go-to guy when they need historical examples to use in their arguments on current issues and legislation.

So, who are these members of Congress who run to David Barton when they need historical “facts” to justify their political agenda and legislation? Well, they are almost exclusively members of something called the Congressional Prayer Caucus, a House caucus founded in 2005 by former congressman Randy Forbes, with the help of David Barton — a caucus whose numbers have ranged from ninety to well over a hundred members since its founding.
If y'all may remember I posted a piece concerning Rick Saccone back in 2013 dealing with the want to include "In God We Trust" as a motto in PA schools.  At the time it was not to far removed from one of Forbes' faux paux from 2011,
[t]o understand the significance of undermining the motto, it is important to first understand our nation's rich spiritual history. The Founders acknowledged our nation's trust in God in our foundational document, the Declaration of Independence,,, [Emphasis mine]
Saccone seems to think that there is yet a crisis of national identity, confusion among Americans about their nation’s motto.  I will wager that the ideology (Christian Revisionist history put forth by David Barton) that forced Forbes into his erroneous statement also rules the mind of Saccone.  I will also wager that neither Forbes nor Saccone "know," or understand, the history behind the phrase beyond what fits into their personal or political agendas.

Q::  Can you touch on again, as I know in our previous talks we have hit this point, why the DOI is not a legal document in the manner the Reich so wants it to be? (We didn't hit on this point but still important!)

The sole purpose of the Declaration of Independence was to dissolve the legal ties between the colonies and Great Britain; once that goal was achieved, the official role of the Declaration was finished.  As I noted, Daulton Dickey in his piece sums it up quite well.
,,,a significant voting bloc that bases its positions and voting decisions on the Bible and the notion that America is a Christian nation, whether it’s on the obvious church/state separation issues or any of the other various issues, such as women’s reproductive rights, gay rights, climate change, etc., in which the personal religious beliefs of these lawmakers are the deciding factor in their opinions and how they vote.
Q:: What exactly is the Congressional Prayer Caucus, what is their influence and how wide is this influence?  I know they have been highlighted in many of your writings concerning the "National Day of Prayer".
,,,But what people need to understand is that Barton and his disciples in Congress believe that the answer to any question or problem facing America today can be found in the Bible. For example, the description on Barton’s radio show website for one of Pence’s appearances in 2008 was: “Today, David Barton, Rick Green [Barton’s co-host], and Congressman Mike Pence discuss Biblical principles in regards to the energy debate.” Yeah, that’s right — even something as completely unrelated to religion as energy policy can somehow be based on “Biblical principles”!
Q::  Rhetorical, as I know the answer and I am sure others do as well.  How dangerous is Mike Pence?
I think what is important to realize, and it is a point you make - the Reich distorts American history to make it fit their agenda.  Agenda, being the key word.  Q::  While their agenda is blatantly obvious to us, in a few words - I'm thinking just one - what is this agenda?

Q::  Again, for the sake of redundancy, what is a theocracy or theocratic rule?
On a recent episode of his radio show, titled “Immigration: What Founding Fathers Of America Thought About It,” Barton attempted to make the bizarre case that immigration was really a state, and not a federal, issue, actually saying that “the feds didn’t have all that much to do with immigration; the states did.” He also claimed that, while the founders “were absolutely okay with people immigrating from anywhere,” there were “certain requirements you had to meet when you got here.” And what were these requirements according to Barton’s convoluted arguments? That immigrants assimilate by learning to speak English and, of course, be Christian. To support his claim that immigration in the days of the founders was a state and not a federal issue, Barton used a so-called quote from Jefferson — a quote that he had previously used in an article on his website to argue that the federal government had no business being involved in healthcare, but is now using for immigration as well as healthcare.
The meat of Chris' article (see attached article),,,
The problem with Barton’s so-called Jefferson quote? Well, Jefferson wasn’t talking about immigrants. He wasn’t even talking about ships coming to America from other countries. He was talking about the exact opposite — ships that were sailing from America to Europe!

The quote that Barton butchers so completely to make it say the exact opposite of what Jefferson was actually talking about comes from Jefferson’s 1805 message to Congress (what we today call the State of the Union address).
The role of the yellow fever epidemic
So, you see what Barton did, with his typical complete audacity, to change the last sentence of the above quote to transform Jefferson’s words about ships sailing from America to Europe into a so-called Jefferson quote about immigrants coming to America?

Barton’s version:

    “The federal government is to certify with the exact truth for every vessel sailing in from a foreign port the state of health on that vessel, which prevails from which country she sails …”

What Jefferson really said:

    “I have strictly enjoined on the officers at the head of customs to certify with exact truth, for every vessel sailing for a foreign port the state of health respecting this fever which prevails at the place from which she sails.”
Healthcare
As you can see, Jefferson very clearly said that addressing the issue of yellow fever was both a state and a federal matter, most obviously because the federal government had authority under the Constitution over both interstate and international commerce, which the big healthcare crisis of that era was certainly affecting. But, more importantly, look at Jefferson’s words in the last sentence of the above quote — “Although the health laws of the States should be found to need no present revisal by Congress …” Clearly, by the words “revisal by Congress,” Jefferson was saying that the federal government did have the authority to overrule the health laws of the states if the state laws were inadequate to protect the national interests.

And Jefferson wasn’t the first president to be of this opinion. In his 1798 message to Congress, John Adams, who also made the issue of yellow fever epidemics his first order of business, called on Congress to establish regulations “in aid of” the health laws of the individual states, also citing the Constitution’s commerce clause as the authority to do so (emphasis added),,,
Why is this important?
But David Barton, by his blatant butchering of Jefferson’s words to create a fake Jefferson quote about immigration, and further misquoting Jefferson by leaving out the part where Jefferson said that this health crisis was both a state and a federal issue, has, in his typical fashion, created just the kind of perfect (and perfectly bogus) founding fathers’ quote that his disciples, both in Congress and elsewhere, count on him to provide them with.

And, while the fact that we have many members of our Congress relying on David Barton for their historical information is frightening enough, there is something even more scary than that. As I wrote quite a bit about in my most recent book, Barton’s brand of Christian nationalist history has already made it into our public schools via the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools (NCBCPS) curriculum, a curriculum chock full of Barton’s history lies (not surprising since Barton is on the NCBCPS’s advisory board), with this Barton-inspired curriculum already being taught in 2,900 public high schools in 39 states according to the NCBCPS website. But it gets worse than that. Barton has now come out with a new history curriculum, set to be released this August, which is also potentially destined to end up in our public schools.
To get more information concerning the issue in TX - remember how TX and CA swing with regards to education has significant impact nationwide

TFN
https://www.facebook.com/TexasFreedomNetwork/

Wednesday, January 20, 2016

Show Notes::Beyond the Trailer Park 1/18/2016



For those that listened to BTTP Monday night 1/18/2015 we hit some heady stuff.  While as you can see by the following, I did script out what I wanted to speak to, I sometimes don't stay on point very well or we just plain ran out of time.  Below you will find basically what we talk on concerning hermeneutics with the examples I used of such, if you are so interested.

As many are aware, I am a former Bible and theology student.  I spent 3 yrs in college studying for the ministry.  Although I had a precursory interest in the "proper techniques" of studying the Bible, it wasn't until the issue of my being a lesbian, that it took on a new meaning.

Although I left that career path for psychology and did not graduate from 4 yr college I was exposed to some very excellent instructors and speakers.  I know what I am going to say is going to sound odd coming from an atheist, but think of it as "know thine enemies".  They taught me well, or at least I think they did as I still use what I was taught to this day although for opposite reasons.

I am no scholar nor an expert (although some say that after 25+ yrs on one topic, I could claim that title).  Yes, I have had schooling but I am also self "taught" and my "library" would prolly scare most atheists or at least have them scratching their heads - I have more religious themed or theology books and Bibles (74 different versions) than I do books concerning atheism. 

While my personal interest lays with homosexuality and the bile and surrounding subjects, ie Paulianity, the study principles are universal. Actually hermeneutics is a theory and/or methodology of textual interpretation and now-a-days is used primarily in the interpretation of biblical texts.  But it does have a strong foundation in philosophy as a theory of human understanding (Heidegger and Derrida being 2 names some may be familiar with).  BUT that is way beyond the scope of tonight's topic and falls into the Dave Foda realm of discussion

Along with hermeneutics you will some times hear the word exegesis, for some they are used interchangeably but in my day, hermeneutics was taught as a wider discipline which includes written, verbal, and nonverbal communication. Exegesis focuses primarily on texts or in some cases words.  Hermeneutics looks at the whole picture starting with a word or verse and building out to include paragraph, chapter, book, writer audience and genre.  It builds on archaeology, sociology, history etc..  There is a little bit of exegesis in hermeneutics and a little bit of hermeneutics in exegesis.

So y'all may be sitting there scratching your heads wondering WTF is Dune babbling on about now especially since we are an atheist show.  As many know Deb and I are gluttons for punishment, we like to go into these crazy atheist v theist debate groups and test our mettle along with trying to counter the BS.

For me personally I do have an agenda, besides seeing how many religionists I can piss off, and it does surround the alleged biblical condemnation of homosexuality.  Unlike Matthew Vines who is attempting to change the church from within with his "doctrine" of love, tolerance and acceptance.  I on the other hand want to show that what some interpret as condemnation, is not what they think it is.  If I can get people to "see" what they have been taught MAY be in error,,,, wishful thinking, I know.

My second piece of agendadizing is twofold,
1] noting how when a verse or narrative is put into its complete context, a whole different interpretation emerges.  (Usually the polar opposite of what those in the Reich would like you to believe)
To me that deceit is intentional and very damaging, while I may not change the mind of the individual I am debating, it is the audience I am going for.

2] While this deceit may be intentional, it highlights what is so very wrong with the Bile and Christianity as a whole.  Two or three people may look at the same verse and come to different conclusions as to its meaning.  In other words, one can make the Bile say what ever you want it to say if you ignore the overall context, the hermeneutics.
A good example for me concerns,  the Nephilim - the Gen 6 giants.  while from an outsiders POV we may dismiss their existence, from a wholly biblical POV their prior existence can be substantiated (and no need to go outside the Bible - ie Book of Enoch - to do so).  One does not have to make up the elaborate mind games that goes with the Nephilim Scripted ideology.
And finally, and with this point I know I have hit my mark when I get the remark "you're an atheist, what do you know" or "you lack the holy spirit".  This sort of piggy-backs off #2.  Deb can attest to this as I know she has heard it as well, "we" have hit a sore spot.  In other words, we know more than them and the fact that we can support our positions drives them insane.  Rather than rethink their positions, they stick fingers in their ears.

That "lalala" attitude tells me one thing, BLIND FAITH.  They do not worship god, they idolize the men that teach to their dogmatic views because THEY do not want to change.  Like I have said before concerning the creation narrative, remove it, and the house of cards come tumbling down.  "They" are no longer "special creations" and "they" don't like that idea.  [ie Kim Davis]

For those of us raised in religion, we have all heard the adage, "the Bible, so easy a child could understand it".  Well guess what, telling me I need the discernment of the HS to study and understand the book tells me it is not as "easy" as you make it out to be.  Telling me "my" understanding of the text is incorrect because it doesn't match what you have been taught, tells me that it is not as "easy" as you make it out to be.  In other words, the Bile is bunk, and "god works in mysterious ways" just don't cut it.  (I have always said the best places to look for a counter argument to contentious passages, is other "christian" websites,,, the in fighting is brutal at times.)

If two people cant even agree on what the message of the Bible is, then why bother even having such a book.  This, dissension tells me that it is no better than Hesiod's Theogeny or Homer's Illiad and Odessy.  Or want to go further back, how about The Instructions of Shuruppak.

Before delving into exactly what hermeneutics is, there is one point I would like to make if it is not obvious.  I abhor cherry-picking!!  And yes, even though I dislike it, I am just as guilty as the next person.  It does have its uses when supported by sound hermeneutics, the best example concerns divination,,, just as many verses support its use as don't, which supports the contention the Bible contradicts itself, because it does.

So, two things,,,, WTH is hermeneutics? And why do you keep citing the KJV of the Bible?

First my overall approach to reading and studying the Bible.  And yes, as I mention on the show this is going to sound bizarre coming from an atheist but old habits die hard.  (The following statements are based on the presupposition that the "mainstream" Christian God exists and the Bible is His inspired, inerrant, infallible word.)
1]  I do not believe that God would embed secret knowledge in the Bible, using obscure techniques is totally foreign to the Bible’s plain teachings and precepts.
Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2]  All that God wanted us to know, is recorded plainly in the Bible which is to be read and pondered, not manipulated by those claiming to possess secret knowledge.  This goes back to my point of, "so easy a child could read it".
Daniel 2:27:: Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, show unto the king;
3]  When studying scripture and one comes across an interpretive problem in the biblical text, one must allow the text to speak and must accept the testimony of the text with a presumption of accuracy.
Now add to that two pieces of instruction I hold to this day.  One I mentioned last week
I was taught that there were two prominent, overall thought processes in regards to biblical interpretation.  The "literal view" asserts that a biblical text should be interpreted according to the “plain meaning” conveyed by its grammatical construction and historical context; its meaning is held to correspond to the intention of the authors.  The second process is what my professor referred to as the "letteral view" of interpretation.  In essence it is a strict almost legalistic point of view.  A good example, that illustrates both views, Christ versus the Pharisees.   Within the Bible, the Pharisees are seen as people who place the letter of the law above the spirit (cf. Mark 2:3–28, 3:1–6).
(The reference above can delve in to the whole moral vs civil vs ceremonial law BS.)

A second piece of instruction that I hold fast to, even as an atheist, is a 5-step process espoused by Henry A Virkler, in Hermeneutics: Principles and Processes of Biblical Interpretation (1981).  In Virkler's view this is the best method for attaining the Scriptural author's intended meaning(s).
  • Lexical-syntactical analysis :: The how and why of the words used focusing on sentence ordering, punctuation, tense of the verse, and other non-grammatical, lexical and syntactical issues. (Example::Elohim is NOT plural)
  • Historical/cultural analysis is self-explanatory.  Know your history, understand the culture the text was influenced by.  (Example::Cultic temple prostitution Ahsteroth in the OT /Cybele in the NT)
  • Context, context, context. (Example::2 Thessalonians 3:10)
  • Theological analysis ::  A single verse usually doesn't make a theology. To take a verse from one book without taking into account other passages that deal with the same topic can cause a poor interpretation.
  • Literary Analysis :: There are several literary aspects that must be taken into account with each genre having a different set of rules.  In the Bible, there are: narratives, histories, prophecies, apocalyptic writings, poetry, psalms and letters. In these, there are differing levels of allegory, figurative language, metaphors, similes and literal language.
And remember there is a difference between someone like Steven Anderson and my college professor (who was also ordained).  But there is also a difference between Matt Slick and someone like Bart Erhman or Mike Heiser.

So that's hermeneutics in a nutshell.  If one takes into consideration all 5 points, you can see how the interpretation and meanings of passages do change.  It also showcases why I use it so much, hermeneutics in and of itself is the best means to show that idolatry of the Bile is bunk.  One cannot force Bronze Age or 1st century moral or ethical guidelines on 21st century society.

Using the OT, specifically the Holiness code (18-27) in Leviticus as an example, it relates primarily to the Levites and priests and their services. Also known as the "Law of the Priests" as it contains the system of laws administered by the Levitical priesthood under which the HEBREW nation lived.

What many "letteralist" like Swanson, Klingenschmitt, Anderson, Manning, Rafeal Cruz, Huckabee yada yada are guilty of here biblical hyperliteralism; it is a false way of biblical interpretation which leads to bigoted statements.  The Bible (whether you accept it as the word of God or as I do as a history of the Jewish people with no authority in how I lead my life) must be read in the context in which it was given. All scripture is given in a cultural, doctrinal, historical, linguistic and religious context; to ignore context is disingenuous at best, deceitful and malicious at worst.

Our discussion concerning the KJVOnly movement will be a separate posting as I am still finalizing some notes and resources.